A Republic, if You Can Keep It . . .

by James D. Best

37 comments

1 Lech Dharms { 11.14.12 at 7:04 pm }

In my humble opinion, Madison’s worst fears have been realized. The 2008 and 2012 Presidential elections were won by an intentional co-opting of disparate minority and “special interest” factions, into a coaliton of power (to quote our Prez)—against the common interests of a majority of Americans.

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2 Henry David Ritscher { 01.01.13 at 8:57 am }

There are some today who believe that it is time to abandon the constitution and start fresh because we can not understand the original intent for the one we have. They wish to replace our republic with a true democracy where the will of the 99% out weighs the needs of the 1%. Our problems are not caused by following the Constitution, but by ignoring it. We are going over more than one cliff this January. Sadly the republic will not die with a whimper, but with thunderous applause.

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3 Elana { 03.02.13 at 10:42 am }

Brings tears to your eyes, doesn’t it. Franklin didn’t foresee the situation we have today. Like hog auctions, our elected representatives are for sale to the highest bidder, billionaires and corporations who want their own pet politicians. Jefferson saw it coming. He forewarned us. “I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”

.” Thomas Jefferson

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4 Brian { 02.26.14 at 2:19 pm }

Republicans seem to have forgotten we live in a Republic!

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Al Schumacher Reply:
July 4th, 2014 at 5:18 am

Actually, Obama has forgotten that this is not a monarchy!

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Al Schumacher Reply:
July 4th, 2014 at 7:10 pm

I’ll say it again! This is NOT a monarchy. Is that what you voted for?

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Al Schumacher Reply:
July 4th, 2014 at 7:13 pm

Please post my comments!

5 Josph { 08.19.14 at 3:42 pm }

The problem with America is a combination of 1) allowing the immigraion of irreligeous peoples, of whose ways we have learned, 2) allowing wicked people to rob us of our God and of His virtue and 3) making the choice to turn our backs on God and on his virtue on our own. As Benjamin Franklin so elequently stated, “Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters. ”

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Josph Reply:
August 19th, 2014 at 3:44 pm

P.S. The handwriting is on the wall. America is finished. It’s only a matter of time now… time that is rapidly running out.

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Cindy Reply:
November 9th, 2016 at 2:57 pm

To bad you see it that way Joseph , our future is us.
Its not over until it is

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Grady Lufkin Frank Reply:
May 16th, 2015 at 2:40 pm

Wise words, Josph. One reason God has blessed America is, to put it alliteratively, a preponderance of the populace was pious. While some of our Founders were devoted Christians, even those who weren’t embraced Judeo-Christian ethics as essential to a free society. It’s sad to see such widespread celebration of immorality.

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Diana McIntosh Reply:
September 30th, 2015 at 11:03 am

Wow! Although I grew up Christian, a big reason I am no longer in any type of religion is because religion breeds judgement and guilt and it is evident in your post. Where’s the love and tolerance? “All men are created equal” and I am all for a republic and the type of government our founding fathers designed for this nation! Is there a possibility we can let go of the judgement Grady, and the gloom and doom, Josph and find some positives in what we have? I am only one person, and I’ve been frustrated with the direction of this nation myself! However, I still believe that one person can have an influence for good – especially when we inspire with love, gratitude.

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Patrick Lilly Reply:
November 25th, 2016 at 10:49 pm

Immorality? Like dropping 263,000 bombs and Missiles onto women and children and common citizens of the Middle East ? Yeah, I don’t think God goes for that. It was kinda like : The Native Smericans (strike 1), the Africans (strike 2), the Middle East (strike 3). You’re Out !!! And when Church is the number one place to have your child abused, molested or raped, well strike 4. I don’t know of any real celebrations of immorality. I know that people cheered during Shock & Awe while we bombed an Iraq that had nothing to do with 911, posed us no threat whatsoever and had no ties to this shadowy al-qaeda that doesn’t exist. Murder is immoral, sir. If you think two men having sex is worse, I suggest that you try them both first. Be the down man in the sexual arrangement and hide in a hut while we fire a tomahawk at you and your family. Let us know which one is worse.

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Richard Sutherland Reply:
May 29th, 2017 at 6:06 pm

I agree 100%. G.W. Bush should have been sent to The Hague for prosecution as a war criminal. Now we have a fascist in the White House counseled by a pure deconstructionist ideologue – Steve Bannon. Pathetic.

Ray Reply:
May 2nd, 2018 at 11:26 am

There has never been any one raped or abused in the church ” God never created a religion” don’t confuse a man made religion with church.
True believers in the word of God is the church.
God never created a religion.

6 Grady Lufkin Frank { 05.16.15 at 2:38 pm }

One reason God has blessed America is, to put it alliteratively, a preponderance of the populace was pious. While some of our Founders were devoted Christians, even those who weren’t embraced Judeo-Christian ethics as essential to a free society. It’s sad to see such widespread celebration of immorality.

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7 exile { 06.13.15 at 11:42 pm }

The first session of Congress was a two and a half hour Bible study on Psalm 35. In my opinion, King George lost the war with the fledgling republic because he forbade the dissemination of the Scriptures in the colonies. The Constitution is the foundation of our Republic, but the Bible is at the core of our Constitution. Why is it so hard for us to retain our reverence for God’s holy word? John 6:40

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8 John Sawyer { 01.24.16 at 11:37 pm }

The US’s founders were something of a schizophrenic bunch. While many of them said that government required virtue of the sort expressed in the Bible, they also said that the Bible should not be our rule of law. Here are some quotes:

1. “If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
~George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789

2. “Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.”
~George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792

3. “We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition … In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man’s religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States.”
~George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793

4. “The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.”
~John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” 1787-1788

5. “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by John Adams

6. “Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”
~John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” (1787-88)

7. “We should begin by setting conscience free. When all men of all religions … shall enjoy equal liberty, property, and an equal chance for honors and power … we may expect that improvements will be made in the human character and the state of society.”
~John Adams, letter to Dr. Price, April 8, 1785, quoted from Albert Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom (1991)

8. “I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”
~Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut, 1802

9. “In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”
~Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814

10. “Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”
~Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787

11. “I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.”
~Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, January 26, 1799

12. “History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.”
~Thomas Jefferson: in letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813

13. “Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.
We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”
~Thomas Jefferson: in a speech to the Virginia Baptists (1808)

14. “Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
~Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

15. “The civil government … functions with complete success … by the total separation of the Church from the State.”
~James Madison, 1819, Writings, 8:432, quoted from Gene Garman, “Essays In Addition to America’s Real Religion”

16. “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
~James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

17. “Every new and successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.”
~James Madison

18. “Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history.”
~James Madison; Monopolies, Perpetuities, Corporations, Ecclesiastical Endowments

19. “It is only when the people become ignorant and corrupt, when they degenerate into a populace, that they are incapable of exercising the sovereignty. Usurpation is then an easy attainment, and an usurper soon found. The people themselves become the willing instruments of their own debasement and ruin. Let us, then, look to the great cause, and endeavor to preserve it in full force. Let us by all wise and constitutional measures promote intelligence among the people as the best means of preserving our liberties.”
~James Monroe, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1817

20. “When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obligated to call for help of the civil power, it’s a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”
~Benjamin Franklin, letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780

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9 The Lost Glory of Americanism: "A Republic if you can keep it" - Dana Glenn Smith { 06.20.16 at 9:31 am }

[…] John Adams wrote that “There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide,” and James Madison wrote in Federalist 10 that “Democracies have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.” Source “A Republic if you can keep it“ […]

10 Independence Day 2016, The Death Spiral Of The Republic, "The Chaos Caused Trump" { 07.05.16 at 10:10 am }

[…] of what was to become the United States of America utterly repudiated democracy. As James D. Best summarized the sentiments of the […]

11 objective { 09.25.16 at 9:08 am }

It appears the problem the our American democratic republic faces is that the “deregulation” of Bribery (deregulation makes the illegal legal) has thoroughly corrupted the republic aspect of American government. Unfortunately, it appears that the democratic aspect of American government, those states that allow legislation by referenda, have not yet been able to limit, let alone eliminate, the naked legalized Bribery that is at the root of every problem facing our nation today. It may not be perfect, but the American Anticorruption Act may be our only hope. http://anticorruptionact.org/

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Mark Reply:
June 10th, 2017 at 10:32 pm

I wish every man woman and child in this country were educated enough to have the excellent conversations that take place in this thread. Maybe then we would have a standing chance, and the courage to stand for something instead of stepping aside.

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12 Cindy { 11.09.16 at 3:03 pm }

Ido not see that in our future of America, people will use bribery at their own will, but, we shall over come and the survival of the fittest will rise.

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13 Derick Hampton { 11.11.16 at 4:52 pm }

The first 2 paragraphs of this is “very” interesting. Got to get home and read the rest!

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14 Richard Morckel { 12.09.16 at 3:09 am }

This is a great Website. Let us all now Call Loud to Congress to retain USA Sovereign Control of our own Internet, never to be handed over to Globalist Control as it will be handed over in just days.

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15 Hypocritical, misinformed and misguided – Women’s March on Washington – Michael Dorgan { 03.23.17 at 2:36 pm }

[…] Franklin was queried by a lady as he left Independence Hall on the final day of deliberation, she asked, “Well Doctor what have we got, a republic or a monarchy.”  Franklin replied, “A republic . […]

16 proximity1 { 07.04.17 at 10:19 am }

You repeat the commonly believed nonsense that there’s something which is particularly distinctive about “democracies” and “republics”.

IN fact, all popularly-elected government qualifies under the term “republic”, a term which has its roots in the latin, “res publica” (“public thing” as opposed to “private” ). How precisely the election’s details are spelled out is a matter which can vary greatly. Suppose that the vote must be unanimous–is that still a “republic(an)” form of government? A.: Yes. But it isn’t a democratic form of republic. since, under a democratic form, decisions–with only a few special exceptions–are decided by votes in which the prevailing issue gains at least 50% + 1 of the votes casts —and all votes count equally : one person, one vote.

Monarchies, dictatorships of strong-men, these are unelected governments as opposed to a republic. “Republic” means only that the government is the fruit of popular election (or choice).

Why is this simple matter so damned stubbornly confused?!

“proximity1”
(July 4, 2017)

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17 John { 10.09.17 at 5:47 pm }

“A republic….if you can keep it” via democratic principle and process.

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18 jerry hamrick { 04.26.18 at 3:04 am }

The remarks made by the Framers about the failures of democracies are wrong. Seriously, flatly wrong. History books about the ancient democracies were wrong. In 1846, George Grote, a British banker began to publish a series of volumes which set the record straight. Ever since modern scholars have added to his revelations. For example Paul Cartledge has just published: “Democracy, A Life.” In it he discusses the errors passed on by the Framers. Madison’s concerns about the republic are clearly justified. George Washington expressed similar concerns in his “Farewell Address.” In fact he predicted the problems we suffer from today. In recent weeks a new book has been published, “How Democracies Die.” The analysis developed by the authors is valid. I have only one disagreement, and it is an important one. Not one of the governments discussed in this book was a democracy. All of them were republics. It is revealing that the authors did not mention any democracy at all in their book. One should expect that a book which promises to explain why democracies would begin with the death of Athenian Democracy. But it is not mentioned at all, anywhere. The reason is clear. The authors omitted any discussion of Athenian democracy because it did not fail in the way that the authors thesis would predict. And the reason is that democracies are not republics and therefore do not have the same weaknesses. Our system is a republic and manifests the same weaknesses that were predicted in the book “How Democracies Die.” The title really should be, “How Republic Die.”
If you read Washington’s “Farewell Address” you will find that his warnings about factions and parties apply only to republics. The authors of “How Democracies Die,” did an excellent job of describing the death of republics which fulfill Washington’s predictions.

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19 jerry hamrick { 05.12.18 at 4:26 pm }

James Madison, in Federalist 10. clearly set out the differences between democracies and republics. One of them is no longer true thanks to modern technology, but the other is critical. He said that in a republic the government is delegated to a small group of men who are elected by the rest. Democracies don’t use elections to choose their leaders. That is why there have been no democracies for more than 2000 years. Most modern governments use elections and that is why they fail. Madison explains in detail why this is a flaw in all republics and he could not find a way to overcome it. So, he resorted to wishful thinking. He said that we would elect “enlightened statesmen” to serve and they would rise above factions. But he was wrong. Our republic is controlled by factions of the kind that Madison and Washington feared. Read Washington’s Farewell Address. You will find that he warned us about the dangers of factions/parties (they used the terms interchangeably) and he nailed it. Everything he predicted is true today. Elections lead to political parties and they lead to factions. Factions are groups of men who join together in pursuit of policies that are detrimental to the rights of others or work against the common good. Welcome to Madison’s and Washington’s America.

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20 John (the x Baptist) Graham { 07.08.18 at 8:53 am }

We’re toast as a country I’m afraid. A new wave of socialism is approaching .

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21 Zonefighter { 07.20.18 at 4:32 pm }

“Democracy has never been and never can be so desirable as aristocracy or monarchy, but while it lasts, is more bloody than either. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy that did not commit suicide.”
— John Adams, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, member Continental Congress, George Washington’s
Vice President, second President of the United States of America, 1815

“[D]emocracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with
personal security, or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.”
— James Madison

“[D]emocracy will soon degenerate into an anarchy; such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no man’s life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure, and every one of these will soon mould itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit, and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will, and the execrable [abominable] cruelty of one or a very few.”
— John Adams

“[T]he experience of all former ages had shown that of all human governments, democracy was the most unstable, fluctuating and short-lived.”
— John Quincy Adams

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22 Rusty { 09.04.18 at 8:51 am }

The Founders were genius and Christian men. Consider what one man said to another in 1857. Let me note that I admire Jefferson as he was one of many of the Founders that formed my political views, but Thomas Babbington Macaulay raised an important consideration:

HOLLY LODGE, KENSINGTON, LONDON, May 23, 1857.

HENRY S. RANDALL, ESQ. — Dear Sir: You are surprised to learn that I have not a high opinion of Mr. JEFFERSON, and I am surprised at your surprise. I am certain that I never wrote a line, and that I never, in Parliament, in conversation, or even on the hustings — a place where it is the fashion to court the populace — uttered a word indicating an opinion that the supreme authority in a State ought to be intrusted to the majority of citizens told by the head; in other words, to the poorest and most ignorant part of society. I have long been convinced that institutions purely democratic must, sooner or later, destroy liberty, or civilization, or both.

In Europe, where the population is dense, the effect of such institutions would be almost instantaneous. What happened lately in France is an example. In 1848 a pure Democracy was established there. During a short time there was reason to expect a general spoliation, a national bankruptcy, a new partition of the soil, a maximum of prices, a ruinous load of taxation laid on the rich for the purpose of supporting the poor in idleness. Such a system would, in twenty years, have made France as poor and barbarous as France of the Carlovingians. Happily the danger was averted; and now there is a despotism, a silent tribune, an enslaved Press. Liberty is gone; but civilization has been saved. I have not the smallest doubt that, if we had a purely Democratic Government here, the effect would be the same. Either the poor would plunder the rich, and civilization would perish; or order and property would be saved by a strong military government, and Liberty would perish.

You may think that your country enjoys an exemption from these evils. I will frankly own to you that I am of a very different opinion. Your fate I believe to be certain, though it is deferred by a physical cause. As long as you have a boundless extent of fertile and unoccupied land, your laboring population will be far more at ease than the laboring population of the old world; and, while that is the case, the Jeffersonian policy may continue to exist without causing any fatal calamity. But the time will come when New-England will be as thickly peopled as Old England. Wages will be as low, and will fluctuate as much with you as with us. You will have your Manchesters and Birminghams; and, in those Manchesters and Birminghams, hundreds of thousands of artisans will assuredly be sometimes out of work. Then your institutions will be fairly brought to the test. Distress everywhere makes the laborer mutinous and discontented, and inclines him to listen with eagerness to agitators who tell him that it is a monstrous iniquity that one man should have a million while another cannot get a full meal. In bad years there is plenty of grumbling here, and sometimes a little rioting. But it matters little. For here the sufferers are not the rulers. The supreme power is in the hands of a class, numerous indeed, but select, of an educated class, of a class which is, and knows itself to be, deeply interested in the security of property and the maintenance of order. Accordingly, the malcontents are firmly, yet gently, restrained. The bad time is got over without robbing the wealthy to relieve the indigent. The springs of national prosperity soon begin to flow again; work is plentiful; wages rise, and all is tranquillity and cheerfulness. I have seen England pass three or four times through such critical seasons as I have described. Through such seasons the United States will have to pass, in the course of the next century, if not of this. How will you pass through them? I heartily wish you a good deliverance. But my reason and my wishes are at war, and I cannot help foreboding the worst. It is quite plain that your Government will never be able to restrain a distressed and discontented majority. For with you the majority is the Government, and has the rich, who are always a minority, absolutely at its mercy. The day will come when, in the State of New-York, a multitude of people, none of whom has had more than half a breakfast, or expects to have more than half a dinner, will choose a Legislature. Is it possible to doubt what sort of Legislature will be chosen? On one side is a statesman preaching patience, respect for vested rights, strict observance of public faith. On the other is a demagogue ranting about the tyranny of capitalists and usurers, and asking why anybody should be permitted to drink champagne and to ride in a carriage, while thousands of honest folks are in want of necessaries. Which of the two candidates is likely to be preferred by a working man who hears his children cry for more bread? I seriously apprehend that you will, in some such season of adversity as I have described, do things which will prevent prosperity from returning; that you will act like people would, in a year of scarcity, devour all the seed-corn, and thus make the next year, a year not of scarcity, but of absolute famine. There will be, I fear, spoliation. The spoliation will increase the distress. The distress will produce fresh spoliation. There is nothing to stay you. Your Constitution is all sail and no anchor. As I said before, when a society has entered on this downward progress, either civilization or liberty must perish. Either some Caesar or Napoleon will seize the reins of government with a strong hand; or your Republic will be as fearfully plundered and laid waste by barbarians in the twentieth century as the Roman Empire was in the fifth; with this difference, that the Huns and Vandals, who ravaged the Roman Empire, came from without, and that your Huns and Vandals will have been engendered within your country by your own institutions.

(Thinking thus, of course, I cannot reckon JEFFERSON among the benefactors of mankind. I readily admit that his intentions were good and his abilities considerable. Odious stories have been circulated about his private life: but I do not know on what evidence those stories rest; and I think it probable that they are false, or monstrously exaggerated. I have no doubt that I shall derive both pleasure and information from your account of him.

I have the honor to be, dear Sir, Your faithful servant, T.B. MACAULAY.

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Martin Reply:
September 8th, 2018 at 3:06 pm

Thanks for sharing – interesting and perspicacious.

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23 Andy Garcia { 01.06.19 at 12:36 pm }

Why do you think Benjamin Franklin was asked if we jad a republic or a monarchy?

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24 Sharonlynne Gruber { 02.08.19 at 12:26 pm }

Mr. Sawyer is absolutely picking and choosing his comments. In fact, James Madison presented from the Baptists of Virginia, the Bill of Rights they wanted before they would approve of the constitution. Those rights were for all and as a protection for Baptists and all Bible believers who were persecuted down through the centuries by Roman
Catholicism and other non-Christian religions. Thomas Jefferson was in agreement with the Baptists on that. Democracies are mob rule and we see that faction of license, not liberty, moving in to dominate our USA. If you studied the Bible, you would know that the God of this universe never forces His will on anyone, and it was on this liberty that our founders recognized His Sovereignty over all nations and based our constitution; and you do not fully understand Jefferson’s or Washington’s meaning of “separation of church and state”. Washington established chaplains for the army and a day of giving thanks to God . You need to quit taking words out of context to suit your arguments. I suggest you read all 36 chapters of George Washington’s “Sacred Fire” book with all his letters and quotes, but that might blow your “fake” argument!!!

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25 Jennifer West { 02.23.19 at 2:09 pm }

I believe our Republic is still well protected by our Constitution. Our Forefathers, saw fit to protect it with checks and balances. God Bless America!

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